• Ok, sure.

    ...but who wouldn't be smart enough to know that a person is single if their spouse is listed with the word "deceased" right there next to their name?

    Especially since any future spouse after a remarriage would be listed immediately after? It's totally pointless (and incorrect) but, okay. I'll leave it like that on pages then. Cheers.

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    • That is usually the case, but not always. For example, if the spouse is missing, like with Rick and Michonne in the TV Series. Thanks for understanding!

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    • A "missing" spouse is neither deceased nor former so I have no idea what that example has to do with dead spouses always (not usually) still be a spouse?

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    • Rick in the TV show is assumed dead by the characters, so is listed as former. We of course know that he is not, but the characters don't.

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    • So... Why not be correct and list him as "presumed deceased?"

      'Cause... legally... if a "presumed deceased" person shows up alive and well...

      They're married to their spouse still.

      If their spouse has re-married... the second marriage is automatically null and void.

      There's not a single scenario where a death makes two people "former" spouses.

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    • Because like I said, we know that's not the case. We saw him picked up by the helicopter, so he's unknown, as is any person we don't know the status of. There's no need to overcomplicate it. If you disagree, you can always start a discussion on the topic so more people can weigh in. Cool?

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    • Again: your response doesn't make sense.

      "Unknown" is another word for "presumed" so...

      Why not be correct and list him as "presumed deceased?"

      'Cause... legally... if a "presumed deceased" person shows up alive and well...

      They're married to their spouse still.

      If their spouse has re-married... the second marriage is automatically null and void.

      There's not a single scenario where a death makes two people "former" spouses.

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    • Unknown is not another word for persumed lol. When you presume, you assume something, which is not the case if you simply use the term "unknown". Then you're just acknowledging you don't know what happened to that person. I tried to explain my point as best as I can, or rather why this wiki list things the way it lists them. Again, I suggest starting a discussion so more people can present their opinions.

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    • To quote you: "Rick in the TV show is assumed dead by the characters..."

      That means they are presuming he is dead... but it's unknown.

      That means they don't know for sure that he is dead... because it's unknown.

      That means they can't definitively say that he is dead... because it's unknown.

      They can't say for a fact that he is dead... because it's unknown.

      Also to quote you: "lol"

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    • Yes, the characters assume that he is dead. We know that he is not. They don't. So he is presumed dead by the characters, but not by us. Is that so hard to understand? Honestly, I feel like you're just arguing for the sake of it now.

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    • I'm not arguing at all! I stated in my first post that I won't edit any pages by removing "former" from dead spouses.

      I'm merely educating.

      As you just said, "...the characters assume that he is dead." Which means his death is unknown. Which means that, for the characters, Michonne is assumed to be a widow (which is not a "former wife" - that's why the word exists).

      Also as you just said: "We know that he is not." Which means that we know he is not a "former husband" because he is alive.

      Also as you just said: "Is that so hard to understand? Honestly, I feel like you're just arguing for the sake of it now."

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    • (Sorry for all the edits - I don't usually use my phone)

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    • Ok, I feel like we're arguing past each other at this point. This whole thing comes down to perspective. When it comes to someone's status, we look at it from our own perspective as spectators, so even if the characters assume someone's status, we can still list that person's status differently if we have information they don't. When it comes to relationships, however, I think it's better to look at it from the character's perspective, since doing so otherwise could lead people to draw unintended conclusions about said characters. If say, Michonne got into another relationship because she thought that Rick was dead, listing Rick as her "former boyfriend" instead of her "ex-boyfriend" imediately makes it clear that Michonne isn't cheating on Rick (at least not intentionally), and has simply moved on because of what she assumed. I realize this is a really specific case, and not at all common, but that's ultimately what it comes down to. Don't get me wrong, you bring up some valid points, I just think that listing them the way they are now is more infobox friendly.

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    • To quote myself from my first post: "...but who wouldn't be smart enough to know that a person is single if their spouse is listed with the word 'deceased' right there next to their name?"

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    • Just to point out:

      On the Ezekiel (TV Series) page, Shiva (TV Series) is listed as "former pet" as well as being listed as "deceased."

      Who could possibly think a dead animal would still be someone's pet while knowing the animal is dead? No one. It's pointless.

      On the flipside, the Carol Peletier (TV Series) only has her daughter listed as deceased but, not as a "former daughter" so this whole "dead=former" thing is highly hypocritical.

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    • But Rick is not deceased, so he shouldn't be listed as such. And no, be shouldn't be listed as presumed deceased either. I explained why I think this, and don't feel like repeating myself.

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    • You haven't "explained" anything. You've only contradicted yourself by saying the characters "assume" him to be dead and the viewers know he is not.

      From either standpoint, there is no one (not a character nor a viewer) who can say he is a "former husband."

      To quote you again: "When it comes to relationships, however, I think it's better to look at it from the character's perspective, since doing so otherwise could lead people to draw unintended conclusions."

      So why does the Rick Grimes (TV Series) page say he is deceased when the characters (as you have pointed out) only assume such?

      Who would ever think Michonne was cheating on a deceased or presumed deceased spouse? No one. It's pointless.

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    • (Can I also just point out that I have no idea why you started using Rick and Michonne as examples in a conversation about SPOUSES?!)

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    • Now you're just spouting nonsense. There isn't anything contradictory about what I said. Take the time to read it carefully, and maybe you'll understand. Rick's page doesn't say he is deceased. I'm not really sure how you reached that conclusion. The whole point of bringing their relationship up is to show that a spouse can be listed as former without being deceased. No, Rick and Michonne aren't married, but the same logic would apply if they were. I'm going to stop replying now, since there is no point in continuing. If you feel so strongly about this, start a discussion, as suggested earlier. Have a good day!

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    • Or: you could stop spouting nonsense and take the time to read so maybe you'll understand!

      I started a conversation about SPOUSES and your entire argument has been based on examples of two people who are not spouses.

      If I start a conversation about mothers and daughters... Will you start replying with examples involving Tyrone and Axel?

      To quote you: "The whole point of bringing their relationship up is to show that a spouse can be listed as former without being deceased."

      Uhm... I know that. Obviously I know that because the whole point of me starting this conversation was to explain to you that a spouse can only be a "former" spouse if the marriage ended via divorce or annulment (AKA: "without being deceased").

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    • Have a good day as well!

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    • Cebr1979
      Cebr1979 removed this reply because:
      didn't mean to duplicate
      11:57, May 12, 2019
      This reply has been removed
    • Remember that time I wasn't spouting nonsense?

      Here you go: https://definedterm.com/former_spouse

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    • A FANDOM user
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